Fantastic Four #102 is cover-dated September 1970. Conan #1, first purely Bronze-age comic, is cover-dated October 1970. This is the clear dividing line both artistically and industry-wise (as it marks Kirby’s departure from Marvel). I’m not sure where the debate is.

The end date of the Bronze Age seems a little more fluid but was definitely sometime around 1984-86. In 1987, Marvel came out with two new ongoing series that were definitely more of a piece with the 1990s than the Bronze Age (i.e. Punisher, Wolverine), so the Bronze Age had definitely passed by then.

I definitely have no argument with the Bronze Age beginning in 1970 and concluding in 1985. Now as to WHAT the Bronze Age was, specifically, well, that will indeed make for an interesting discussion. Obviously, with the lifting of some restrictions in the Comics Code Authority, circa 1971, it allowed writers, artists and editors to be a little more realistic in their storytelling. The mystery/horror genre got a facelift. The western comic, though waning in popularity, took a giant leap away from Super-Chief and its ilk with Jonah Hex. Science fiction blended more with fantasy, I’m thinking Chaykin’s Iron Wolf here. The list goes on and on. Simply put, The Bronze Age allowed more diversity!! Finally, it unleashed Kirby, then sought to restrain him.

Nick:

First, thanks for stopping by.

Besides the date (and I must admit I appreciate the cleaness of Marvel’s timing), what makes Conan the Barbarian #1 “purely Bronze”? Is it the infusion of new talent like Barry Smith? Is it the return of the sword-and-sorcery genre after a decade-plus dominated by superheroes? Is it the Big Twos increased use of licensed properties? (Or is it more like a change in the type of licensed properties, from books like Adventures of Jerry Lewis to things like Conan and Star Wars?) Or is it all of these things (collectively, they start to frame themes that would dominate the early part of the Bronze Age)?

Finally, what about Green Lantern #76? It predates the books we’re discussing from Marvel. Is it not a Bronze Age book, or does it mark DC’s Bronze starting point?

Cheers,
Andrew

Tom Spurgeon, one of our field’s foremost journalists, has commented on this discussion over at The Comics Reporter. He argues that this conversation is all but a done deal, as the Bronze Age is “well-defined, obviously so, by the first non-Jack Kirby issue of Fantastic Four on one end and the first issues of the mega-crossovers Secret Wars and Crisis on Infinite Earths on the other. I can’t even imagine any strong contenders to those candidates, … .” Obviously, I’m hoping we’ll go a little deeper here, not only by identifying and making the case for other key books — i.e., Green Lantern #76 and Conan the Barbarian #1 — but with a discussion about the themes, trends, business decisions, etc., that led to both the beginning and end of the Bronze Age.

[...] Believe In An Age Of Bronze I got an e-mail about this attempt to define the parameters of a Bronze Age of American mainstream comics, but I figure out why. It seems to me that if you insist on breaking comics down into periods like [...]

Jim:

I hadn’t considered changes in the code; that’s certainly an area worth looking into more. My recent thinking has been focused on changes in the distribution system. Marvel’s ability to release more titles certainly helped drive some of that diversity you’re talking about, as did DC’s decision to respond with a flood of new titles of their own. All this new product also required an influx of new talent, which I’d argue is another key element of the Bronze Age. The slow death of newsstands sales and the rise of the direct sales market are also part of the Bronze Age story, with the release of direct-only series by the Big Two all but sealing to the end of the era.

As for Kirby, he’s a fabulous historical agent. In studying the era’s history, the King always seems to be at ground zero of major industry change: Both the beginning and end of the Silver Age (Fantastic Four), the beginning of the Bronze Age (his Fourth World books), and again with the rise of the Post-Bronze period (Captain Victory and his other work for PC and Eclipse). Really, you can almost track a half-century of comics history just following this one man’s career!

Cheers,
Andrew

Scott’s Classic Comics Corner, part of the Comics Should Be Good gang, blogged about the dawn of the Bronze Age last month, nominating a handful of outside-the-box candidates for the title of “first Bronze Age book,” including The Unexpected #105, Wham-O-Comics #1, Laugh Comics #191, and G.I. Combat #138, House of Mystery #188, The Adventures of Bob Hope #95 and Flash #220. Scott’s obviously having fun with some of these, but he does a great job identifying themes and trends that helped define the beginning of the age. (Note: Several of Scott’s suggestions were published prior to 1970, which would put them in the Pre-Bronze period in my framework.)

I read Tom Spurgeon’s comments, and while I have the utmost respect for his opinions, I don’t agree with the tail end of his thoughts on this particular matter. I think the reason why a lot of grown men, who are true Bronze Age of Comics enthusiasts, have this kind of discussion is that, for the most part, it’s a lot of fun.

Heidi MacDonald over at The Beat links to this conversation, and offers the funniest answer to “What is the Bronze Age?” yet: “Personally, we feel it began when Neal Adams learned how to properly smelt copper and tin and ended when he discovered the center of the earth.”

While I’d be hard pressed to point to the starting point, I’m inclined to say that the end was the period between the final issue of Crisis and the beginning of the Legends mini-series. That’s when it seemed at least for DC, a change occurred.

That said, what period does the the beginning of Legends up until the advent of Image belong to. I hesitate to call it the “modern” age or whatever comics are called nowadays, so the end of the bronze age might or should extend to the beginning of Image. That’s when the industry as a whole shifted completely, be it art style, panel layout, writing, etc… I always read comics as a kid, especially during the bronze age, but it was the period from 1987-1990 that really hooked me and made me the full-time reader that I am today.

[...] Bronze Age tries to identify…What IS the Bronze Age of Comics? Considering that many fans today are of the opinion that the Silver Age lasted through 1985, [...]

[...] reviews of Bronze Age comics, there are articles and lively debates, like the recent one on “What Is the Bronze Age of Comics?” Dive in and dig the wonderment, [...]

Vince:

The Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide calls 1984 to 1992 the Copper Age. It’s a short period marked by Secret Wars and Crisis on Infinite Earths on one end, and the dawn of Image Comics on the other. That’s not a lot of time, but it does really seem to be a distinct period of comics history. And I agree that DC seems to be in the driver’s seat during this period. If Bronze Age comics stole my heart, it was the DC comics of this era that sealed the deal with my mind: Dark Knight and “Batman: Year One,” Watchmen and other work by Moore, John Byrne’s Superman (the first time I regularly read DC’s flagship title), etc. The growing number of independent publishers offering more mature fare helped, too, as did my relatively late discovery of Cerebus the Aardvark. Collectively, the comics of this period helped the medium compete with girls, cars and all the other stuff I was discovering as a high-school-age boy at the time.

With Secret Wars ending and Crisis on Infinite Earths beginning in 1985, it seems the evidence points toward the Bronze Age ending then instead of the Overstreet-recommended 1984. I’ve decided to update Comics Bronze Age’s mission statement and tag line to reflect this.

I’ve always felt that the Bronze Age ended with the last issue of Crisis On Infinite Earths and the retirement of editor Julius Schwartz. The Modern Age kicked in with the release of The Dark Knight Returns, Maus, and Watchmen in 1986.

There was also a real youth movement creatively during the Bronze Age. In the Silver Age, Julius Schwartz really only worked with two writers, Gardner Fox and John Broome (Frank Robbins also took on Batman in the late 1960s). Then, beginning in 1968, Schwartz guided a host of young talent: Denny O’Neil, Cary Bates, Elliot S. Maggin, Michael Friedrich, Len Wein, and Martin Pasko.

I’d absolutely agree with that timing, it’s not as simple as just the ’70’s, and I think young talent / fans getting into the business is the key.
Also as I’ve said before, any fan these days who looks on The Bronze Age as childish & unworthy is clearly looking at the wrong stuff. Steve Gerber? Tomb Of Dracula? Steve Englehart? Star*Reach? Overwritten compared to today, yeah, I’ll give you that, but childish?

“Besides the date (and I must admit I appreciate the cleaness of Marvel’s timing), what makes Conan the Barbarian #1 “purely Bronze”?”

1) It’s not a superhero comic. After the superhero-dominated SA, Conan heralded a new popularity for fantasy and horror.

2) Freer treatment of sexuality and violence than SA comics.

3) Fuzzier demaracation of good and evil. While SA characters like Hulk and Sub-Mariner were anti-heroes, they were misunderstood more than unethical. Conan, while living by a certain code, could not really be called moral by most standards. He anticipates the Punisher, Wolverine, etc.

4) Yes, Barry Smith was definitely a Bronze Age artist. Art that’s more mannered than the clear lines and action of SA comics.

It’s my understanding that certain monsters couldn’t be depicted in comics as a result of the establishment of the Comics Code Authority in the mid-1950s. When Joe Orlando re-introduced House of Mystery and House of Secrets in 1968, he brought a more EC-tone to the books, but there were still some mighty limitations posed by the Comics Code Authority. When CCA regulations were loosened in the early 1970s, horror comics changed immediately. Suddenly, there were vampires and werewolves all over the place. More adult themes could be used.

The Bronze Age of Comics, in many respects, is just a late reflection of what other forms of entertainment, such as cinema and television, underwent in the 1960s. But there remained some heavy restrictions.

Jim:

In terms of a youth movement, would you say the Bronze Age was the first time we see “the inmates running the asylum”? In many of the interviews I’ve read, comic books seem to be just a job to many Pre-Bronze creators, something better than ad illustration but inferior to being a comic strip artist. With the Bronze Age, you see a huge influx of comic-book fans turning pro, from Len Wein and Paul Levitz to Bob Layton and John Byrne. The upside to this phenomenon is that these new creators have a respect — even reverence — for the material. The downside? This seems to be the start of the copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy distortion phenomenon that eventually leads to the rise of the Image style and some really awful books in the mid-1990s.

As I continue researching the definition of the Bronze Age, earlier work on the topic, by Arnold T. Blumberg and J.C. Vaughn, comes up time and again. The duo wrote a pair of articles for the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide: “Comic Book Ages: Starting the Discussion” (in the 33rd edition, published in 2003) and “Comic Book Ages: Defining Eras (in the 34th edition, published in 2004, with additional material from Douglas Gillock). Neither article is available online.

What is online is a series of fascinating discussions that took place between the two articles; these conversations were published in the pages of the e-newsletter Scoop: [Part 1] [Part 2] [Part 3] [Part 4]

It is these discussions, in part, that helped lead Blumberg and Vaughn to the following conclusions in their second article:

• The shift between ages often has as much to do with business decisions as creative ones. For example, Stan Lee stepping away from the day-to-day operations at Marvel opened the door for Gwen Stacy’s death.

• The Comics Code Authority also played a major role in the shift between ages. At the dawn of the Bronze Age, changes to the original CCA in early 1971 allowed the industry to explore a wider range of genres and topics. The CCA also played a part in the end of the Bronze era, as the move to direct distribution freed the industry from such restrictions altogether.

• Comic book ages often don’t have a single beginning and end point, but exist instead on a continuum. For example, DC moved into the Bronze Age in April 1970 with publication of Green Lantern #76. Marvel lagged behind until the publication of The Amazing Spider-Man #121 in June 1973. (I’d argue that Marvel went Bronze in October 1970, with the publication of both Fantastic Four #103 and Conan the Barbarian #1.)

• The Bronze Age ends with the publication of Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars and DC’s Crisis on Infinite Earths, two miniseries that launch the Copper Age. Comics historian Peter Sanderson argues that Blumberg and Vaughn overestimate the importance of Secret Wars. (I tend to agree, as Secret Wars reads like a Bronze Age book and doesn’t offer the radical departure with the past the way Crisis does.)

I came across another article prompted by Blumberg and Vaughn’s work: “The New Ages: Rethinking Comic Book History” by Ken Quattro. This is a well-researched piece and offers a pretty radical departure from the historical framework that seems to be settling in. For example, he argues that the period from 1968 to 1986 should be known as the Neo-Silver Age. While I can’t get on board with his proposed ages — I’d argue that the metal-themed vocabulary is already in wide usage, at least through Bronze and Copper — Quattro’s arguments should definitely be in the mix.

From a behind the scenes point of view, I feel the Bronze Age began developing in 1968 with DC appointing Carmine Infantino as Editorial Director and Marvel getting a new distribution deal. The Bronze Age truly blossomed in 1970, and, yes, I agree that the influx of new talent (the rise of the fanboy within, and also some radical artistic approaches, such as Chaykin) definitely kept the Bronze Age running for several years. DC backpedaled a bit with their superhero line when the relevancy ‘era’ drew to a close, and really had to regroup after the DC Implosion of 1978. While DC was in a kind of Man’s Land from 1978 through the first half of 1980, the industry wasn’t, with the rise of Cerebus and Eisner beginning a strong string of graphic novels. As far as critical thinking regarding the Bronze Age, well, one need go further than the gradual shift in tone of The Comics Journal in the early 1980s.

Just a note saying thanks for taking a look at my work in comics history as part of your exploration. Nothing is set in stone, and I haven’t thought of the subject seriously in a while so my opinions may even have changed somewhat. But the debate rages on. :)

Regards,
Arnold

Arnold:

Thanks for stopping by Comics Bronze Age. I have a feeling this discussion is just the start of extended studies on the topic for me. I’m currently working on master’s degree in history, and, if I can get my adviser on board with the topic, I hope to delve much deeper into the Bronze Age in the year ahead. (And, if I do, don’t be surprised if I don’t come back to hit you up as a source!)

Cheers,
Andrew

Jim:

As often as it comes up when researching the Bronze Age, it’s pretty clear 1968 marks the beginning of a transitional phase. Among the key events:

• An explosion of new titles from Marvel (made possible by their new distribution deal).

• Marvel experimenting with the magazine format (i.e., Spectacular Spider-Man) and avoiding the CCA.

• Two years before Kirby makes the jump, another key member of Marvel’s Silver Age stable — Steve Ditko — emerges at DC.

• Editorial changes at DC led to things like the “new” Wonder Woman and the return of horror to House of Mystery.

• Radical work from young guns Neal Adams and Jim Steranko helped redefine what a comic book could — and perhaps should — be.

It’s pretty clear that when the definitive history of the Bronze Age of comics is written, the Pre-Bronze years of 1968 and ’69 deserve a chapter of their own.

Looking for more evidence of an editorial shift in the comics industry in 1970? In this week’s “Comic Book Legends Revealed” column, Brian Cronin points to a significant comics event that happened that year: DC discovered black people! I jest — but just a little. A reader survey conducted by the company that year targeted race relations as possible subject matter for future stories. Several other “relevancy” topics that were all the rage in the early Bronze Age — i.e., “national problems,” “city problems” and “pollution” — also made the survey.

How about “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?” - this story was published in (I believe) 1986, ended the original run of both historic Superman titles, AND marked the retirement of Julius Schwartz.

I realize it somewhat covers the same territory / argument put forth here on behalf of Crisis, but it still seems a reasonable end-point.

I’m coming in to this discussion really late, but I only recently became aware of this site (like 2 days ago. sorry…)
Anyway, I find this whole ‘Bronze Age’ conundrum fascinating, and have followed the debates on various comic blogs over the past few years with great interest. Here’s my 2 cents for what it’s worth: I primarily take issue with 1970 as a generally-accepted clear-cut starting point. This may be valid for DC, but far from agreeing with the point made above that Marvel only entered the Bronze Age in 1973, I actually think the Bronze Age started earlier at Marvel - in my opinion, titles like the Avengers by Thomas & Buscema, and the last dozen or so X-men issues prior to going into reprints, also mainly handled by Thomas, are squarely in the Bronze Age. The same can also be said for Spider-man by the late 1960s. Even the later issues of Lee & Kirby’s FF already have this sort of ‘transitional’ feel to them.
As for when the Bronze Age ended, that seems trickier - and again, I think differs depending on the company. The titles put out by the new direct sales publishers are definitely post-Bronze. Granted, using DC’s ‘Crisis’ as an obvious break seems only fitting, but to me many of the pre-Crisis titles at DC seemed to have this post-Bronze Age ‘vibe’: for example, New Teen Titans, and, say, Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing. Looking at Marvel, the Bronze Age seemed to end when John Byrne took over Fantastic Four. And when, reflecting trends in Hollywood at the time, more or less second-tier characters with questionable morals, like Wolverine and the Punisher, began to become A-listers.

Edo:

Thanks for joining the discussion. There was definitely something different going on at Marvel in the late ’60s. I’m guessing when I adopt “official” definitions for this site, 1968-69 will be the Pre-Bronze Age, as these books are noticeably different than the ones that came before. As for comics from the early ’80s, I’m guessing I’ll still be defining them as Bronze, though there’s certainly a different flavor to these later Bronze books (Byrne’s FF, Simonson’s Thor, Miller’s Daredevil, The New Teen Titans, etc.) Perhaps Early Bronze and Late Bronze distinctions are necessary?

I suppose, but then it really starts to get almost silly - I mean using all of these archeological-type distinctions for ‘eras’ that lasted for a blink of an eye in the broader sweep of history (and no, I’m not taking this all that seriously, I know it’s all just good fun…)
Actually, looking at all of these discussions of the various comics “ages” over the past few years makes me think it might just be simplest to just classify them by decades (i.e. ’30s, ’40s, ’50s, etc.), since once you get down to it, it seems really hard to define what all of these “ages” mean to various readers - I mean, the same thing can be said of the Silver Age: most would say it began with the appearance of Barry Allen Flash, but that only applies to DC, since Marvel (& Charlton and so forth) only started seriously publishing super-hero comics again about 5-6 years later…
And what do you call that period between the decline of the Golden Age super-hero period (late ’40s) and the start of the Silver Age with the new Flash (i.e. the heyday of EC and other horror/crime/war/SF/romance comics)? Is that still the Golden Age? I would say not, but as you can tell by my previous comments, I tend to look at these things rather differently. Anyway, have to stop now, I’ve already eaten up enough of my all-too-short lunch break…

The Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide refers to the period from 1946-56 as the Atom Age. The emergence of a separate designator for that period was probably the first chink in the broad, metal-named historical framework. I doubt total agreement will ever be reached by fandom on any of these ages. Still, I think exercises like this are useful (and good fun!), especially as I needed to define the scope of what Comics Bronze Age would be covering. Plus the history buff in me — that’s the field my academic work has been in — appreciates the marriage of my two favorite pastimes : )

I’ve posted this “What is the Bronze Age of comics?” question over at the Marvel Masterworks Message Boards and the CBGXtra Forums to gather some additional opinions on the topic. (FYI, it seems to be working.)